WEBVTT 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:08.080 This week on Red Cedar Stories, Eric is talking to Ruth Klein Roebach. 00:00:09.680 --> 00:00:15.520 Welcome to Red Cedar Stories, a podcast all about the Red Cedar River at Michigan State University. 00:00:15.840 --> 00:00:20.720 I'm your host, Eric Tanz, and today we are joined by Ruth Klein-Roebach. 00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:26.560 Ruth is an outreach specialist with expertise in community-based water resources management issues. 00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:41.360 Ruth has appointments in both the MSU Department of Sustainability and the Institute of Water Research, and in addition to teaching responsibilities, provides training and technical assistance related to watershed planning, sourcewater protection, and stormwater management. 00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:44.000 Ruth, welcome and thank you for joining me today. 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:45.440 Thanks for having me, Eric. 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:46.240 I'm happy to be here. 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:52.400 Why don't you talk a little bit more about your role here at MSU and how the Red Cedar River impacts your work? 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:55.680 So I have a really interesting appointment here at the university. 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:57.600 I am an academic specialist. 00:00:57.680 --> 00:00:59.760 I'm an outreach specialist, specifically water. 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:01.600 Resources outreach. 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:07.040 I have been at the university for 32 years, which shocks me when I say that. 00:01:07.360 --> 00:01:14.080 And my whole tenure at the university has been involved with various water resources projects. 00:01:14.160 --> 00:01:23.200 So when I first began my work, I was primarily working on groundwater programs and then that transition to stormwater and watershed planning. 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:33.440 And I think I started working on Red Cedar River issues probably in the early 2000s is when we first started asking questions and thinking about the river. 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:39.680 And I have worked on river issues through that entire time since the 2000s. 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:51.280 I'm also, in addition to my appointments in the Department of Community Sustainability and the Institute of Water Research, I'm a member of the MSU Extension Center for Lakes and Streams. 00:01:51.600 --> 00:01:59.680 And so we provide all different kinds of outreach programs relating to rivers and streams throughout Michigan, including the Red Cedar River. 00:02:00.160 --> 00:02:00.400 Great. 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:09.120 I'm curious, do you recall what led to the shift from focusing on groundwater to including the river in the early 2000s? 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:17.680 It was really based on upcoming federal regulations for the university, and that was part of the Clean Water Act. 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:30.560 So in the early 2000s, the university started thinking about the upcoming Clean Water Act regulations around stormwater that we would have to be complying with beginning in 2003. 00:02:30.880 --> 00:02:40.240 So we started doing some early reconnaissance of water quality sampling in the Red Cedar River, trying to figure out what this really meant for the university. 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:49.760 So essentially what happened is under the Clean Water Act, which was initially passed in 1972, and I know that you've seen the picture of the Red Cedar River. 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:51.440 Before the Clean Water Act. 00:02:51.600 --> 00:02:53.040 It was crazy, dirty. 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:59.600 So we passed the Clean Water Act in 1972, which for the first time regulated point sources of pollution. 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:11.200 So finally, the federal government and then the states, through their implementing powers, started to require permits for direct discharges into the river. 00:03:11.440 --> 00:03:14.480 Now that didn't include stormwater at that time. 00:03:14.640 --> 00:03:23.120 We're really looking at industrial sources of discharge, wastewater treatment plant discharges, which we now mostly call water resource recovery facilities. 00:03:23.440 --> 00:03:27.120 But we didn't look at what was happening in urbanized areas. 00:03:27.440 --> 00:03:34.320 So in the 90s, large communities started to have to look at their stormwater. 00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:42.640 But middle and medium-sized communities like the city of East Lansing, the city of Lansing, Michigan State, we were not part of those stormwater regulations. 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.040 In 2003, that changed. 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:52.560 So the federal government said communities of 50,000 or more, it was based on population and population density. 00:03:52.880 --> 00:03:59.120 They said you have to figure out what's coming from your stormwater through your outfalls. 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.000 Outfalls that dump into your local water bodies. 00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:07.840 So, before those regulations took effect, I'm actually getting to your question. 00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:17.040 Back in 2000, we started doing some water quality sampling on the river, and there was a whole group of faculty members and interested citizens. 00:04:17.200 --> 00:04:21.440 We had some agency folks at the table, and we did some E. 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:22.560 coli sampling. 00:04:22.880 --> 00:04:28.000 And we found at that time some very egregious sources of E. 00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:30.320 coli contamination in the Red Cedar. 00:04:30.640 --> 00:04:34.160 And so, that was really what jump-started our effort. 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:36.800 And from there, things just took off. 00:04:36.880 --> 00:04:46.880 And we started doing all kinds of water quality sampling and community outreach and just kind of different aspects all related to the Red Cedar River. 00:04:46.960 --> 00:04:50.560 And it's really continued all the way through today, which is kind of cool. 00:04:50.880 --> 00:04:51.360 Yeah, great. 00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:52.880 Well, thank you for that overview. 00:04:53.200 --> 00:04:59.840 You mentioned stormwater a couple of times in your remarks, and I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about what stormwater is. 00:05:00.320 --> 00:05:04.960 Management is and why it's so significant for the MSU campus and the communities surrounding it? 00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:09.280 Sure, this is a really important topic for communities across the U.S. 00:05:09.520 --> 00:05:09.920 right now. 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:18.480 So, in the early days, when we put our water infrastructure in place in the U.S., we had what was called combined sewer systems. 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:34.000 And so, what that means is that all of the sanitary waste from a community in a municipality, so toilet water, dishwasher, washing machine, all of that sanitary waste went into the same pipe as our stormwater. 00:05:34.320 --> 00:05:39.280 And all of that water went to the nearest wastewater treatment plant for treatment. 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:45.120 And then, once the treatment is complete, it gets discharged back into the local water supply. 00:05:45.440 --> 00:05:54.960 So, the problem with combined sewer systems is that when you get a large rain event, the municipal wastewater treatment plant can be overwhelmed. 00:05:55.200 --> 00:05:59.440 And so, those combined sewer systems had overflow valves, basically. 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:07.840 And in a period of extreme rain, then we would see raw sewage dumped into our local water supplies. 00:06:08.080 --> 00:06:08.480 We don't want that. 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:10.480 Those are combined sewer overflows. 00:06:10.640 --> 00:06:11.360 We don't want that. 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:15.440 So we spent an enormous amount of money across the U.S. 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.080 to separate our sewer systems. 00:06:18.400 --> 00:06:21.920 And we still have some combined systems out there, including in Michigan. 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:22.480 But here. 00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:25.040 I believe Lansing is still working on separating theirs. 00:06:25.440 --> 00:06:25.920 You betcha. 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:31.520 But here at Michigan State, we have what is called a municipal separate storm sewer system, an MS4. 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:39.760 So these stormwater regulations under the Clean Water Act are regulating those separated storm sewer systems. 00:06:40.080 --> 00:06:49.840 Because what happened is we separated the systems and we thought, cool, now the sanitary waste goes to the wastewater treatment plant and the stormwater goes directly to the rivers and streams. 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:50.800 Well guess what? 00:06:50.960 --> 00:06:53.440 Mmm, that water is not super clean. 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:54.880 The stormwater is not super clean. 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:59.600 So we said, oh gosh, the federal government said, I think we need to start regulating these. 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.240 So that's really what the upshot is. 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:17.600 All of the stormwater that lands on this campus that hits a sealed surface, a rooftop, a parking lot, a sidewalk, all of that water ends up in a catch basin or a storm drain, which leads to a pipe, which leads to the river. 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:19.360 And so we call those outfalls. 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:22.960 And it's something you probably don't notice unless you're looking for them. 00:07:23.200 --> 00:07:26.080 But when you walk, when you're leaving today, Eric, this is your challenge. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:30.560 I want you to walk along the river and look and notice the outfalls. 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.040 Notice the pipes that are entering the river. 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:35.680 And that is what is draining our stormwater. 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:39.840 So each one of those pipes is regulated under the Clean Water Act. 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:41.040 We have a permit for that. 00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:44.000 It's our MS4 stormwater permit. 00:07:44.320 --> 00:07:46.560 And with that comes a great responsibility. 00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:59.760 There are a whole host of people at the university that I work with, wonderful people from various departments, and we're putting a lot of work into making sure that the water that comes out of those outfalls. 00:08:00.320 --> 00:08:02.480 is nothing but stormwater. 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:04.800 So there's nothing else going in there. 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:06.560 It's a huge responsibility. 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:14.720 And all of the communities across Michigan, I think there are now close to 400, if not more, communities that have stormwater regulations. 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:23.200 Here in the Greater Lansing area, there are 17 communities and organizations and groups that have stormwater permits. 00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:28.960 So for every pipe that comes to the river, every outflow, it's connected to a catch basin. 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:34.480 That's a lot of infrastructure across campus that maybe people aren't noticing. 00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:37.840 I guess I'm just curious, where are the catch basins? 00:08:38.160 --> 00:08:39.760 That's another challenge I'll give you. 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:44.480 When you're walking along the sidewalk, just look for the grates on the side of the sidewalk. 00:08:44.640 --> 00:08:47.440 Sometimes they're kind of in the middle of the sidewalk. 00:08:47.680 --> 00:08:49.760 Those are catch basins or storm drains. 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:55.520 And of course, the purpose for that is we need to get the water off the roadways and off the sidewalk so we don't flood. 00:08:55.680 --> 00:08:57.680 But that water shoots straight to the river. 00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:59.840 Hopefully you will see some of our details. 00:09:00.160 --> 00:09:08.960 Cals that say no dumping drains to river, and that's part of our public education program, which is part of the requirements of our stormwater permit. 00:09:09.280 --> 00:09:18.160 So there are more than a thousand catch basins across campus draining the water away from the roadways, and that's what we're trying to keep clean. 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:20.000 Maybe changing gears a little bit. 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:28.400 Before you started working with the Red Cedar River, you were still on campus, and I'm wondering if you have any recollections of your first impressions of the river when you got here. 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:35.360 Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because you gave me that question in advance, and I think I've been here for so long. 00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:38.720 I don't remember what my first impressions were. 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.320 And I did, I visited campus. 00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:41.600 I'm originally from Michigan. 00:09:41.760 --> 00:09:48.000 I visited campus as a high school student coming for state competitions for various clubs and organizations. 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:52.160 And I remember that the river was here, but I don't remember first impressions. 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:59.760 I will say, though, that I speak to a lot of alumni and just a lot of people who have been around for. 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:05.520 A while, and it is really interesting to listen to their first impressions. 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:16.560 And back before we passed the Clean Water Act, when anything went, and we had the Cuyahoga River in Ohio was catching fire, and you know, the surface waters in the U.S. 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:21.680 were really a mess, I talk to people who remember the Red Cedar as it was back then. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:29.280 And they'll jokingly say, Oh, yeah, I remember when you could walk across the Red Cedar in the wintertime and the summertime because it was so disgusting. 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.760 And that's something we've really been fighting with our public education programs. 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:39.200 Students are still coming to campus with these preconceived ideas about the river. 00:10:39.520 --> 00:10:39.840 Absolutely. 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:45.440 So, grandparents, great-grandparents talk about how disgusting the Red Cedar was. 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:50.240 I mean, you probably heard people used to call it the Red Sewer or the Dead Cedar. 00:10:50.560 --> 00:10:56.160 I have had students that say, Oh, I heard you have to get a tetanus shot if you touch the water in the Red Cedar River. 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:59.760 So, we have all of these preconceived ideas. 00:11:00.560 --> 00:11:04.880 About the river, that our public education programs are trying to counteract. 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.280 And it's interesting that it's still like that today. 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.520 And I think part of it is because of the visuals. 00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:17.840 I mean, there are a lot of tannins in the river, so the water is dark and turbid-looking, and so it's not pristine water. 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.960 Like, I don't know if people are thinking of Lake Michigan and the gorgeous waters of Lake Michigan. 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:24.560 That's not what the Red Cedar looks like. 00:11:24.800 --> 00:11:28.320 So, I think maybe that's part of the first impressions that people get. 00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:36.080 Yeah, I've definitely come across a lot of those similar statements about Tetanushots and the Red Cedar, the Red Sewer. 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:41.600 And part of the reason why I want to do this podcast and talk to people about the river is to counteract that narrative. 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:43.200 Yeah, I think that's wonderful. 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:50.000 And so, I just want to emphasize that the Red Cedar, we are a river in an urbanized area. 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:53.520 There are going to be water quality impacts related to that. 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:58.000 Of course, there are a lot of issues with the upstream portion of the watershed as well. 00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.840 So, I teach a couple of undergraduate classes. 00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:02.320 On water resources management. 00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:14.720 And when I speak to my students, I emphasize that when we talk about water resources and water quality, what we're talking about is land management because it's the way that we manage the land. 00:12:14.880 --> 00:12:22.000 It's the care and the caution of our activities on the landscape that are going to impact water, surface water, and groundwater. 00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:28.480 So what we're really talking about is land use and how that relates to water quality in the river. 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:30.480 So it's an urbanized river. 00:12:30.800 --> 00:12:36.800 It's much healthier than most people think, you know, those that are coming to campus with these preconceived ideas. 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:37.440 Absolutely. 00:12:37.760 --> 00:12:45.200 But we do have water quality issues in the Red Cedar River, and primarily our issue of concern is bacteria or E. 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:46.560 coli in the river. 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:52.800 So with your students, do you see changes in their perceptions of the river over the course of a semester? 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:54.560 Oh, absolutely. 00:12:54.640 --> 00:12:55.760 And it's super cool. 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.760 We talk about information sources and where can I find more information? 00:13:00.160 --> 00:13:08.880 And it's not only about the river, but then it makes them curious about the water in their hometown watershed, both surface water and groundwater, which is cool. 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:09.600 Excellent. 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:17.360 Speaking of watersheds, maybe you could talk a little bit about what is a watershed and why is planning at a watershed level so important? 00:13:17.680 --> 00:13:18.960 Oh, super good question. 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:24.560 So a watershed is an area of land that drains to a common point. 00:13:24.880 --> 00:13:27.200 Because of that, it's topographically defined. 00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:38.960 And if you think about a raindrop or snow melt, what we're thinking of in a watershed is that all of that rain or all of that snow melt goes to a common body of water. 00:13:39.280 --> 00:13:45.200 So what that means is you and I here sitting at the library are in the Red Cedar River watershed. 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:54.480 So all of the land area surrounding us when it rains, now here it's through our storm drains, our catch basins, and our stormwater outfalls. 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:59.680 But in the upper portion of the watershed, it's the landscape that's draining by gravity from high elevation to 00:14:00.160 --> 00:14:02.240 Low elevation into the Red Cedar River. 00:14:02.400 --> 00:14:09.200 We are in the Red Cedar River watershed, but the Red Cedar joins the Grand River near Potter Park Zoo. 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.840 So we are also in the Grand River watershed. 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:18.800 The Red Cedar is a subwatershed of the Grand River watershed, and the Grand River drains to Lake Michigan at Grand Haven. 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:23.040 So we are also in the Lake Michigan watershed and the Great Lakes watershed. 00:14:23.280 --> 00:14:39.680 If you think about getting back to this idea that it's the care and caution of how we are using the landscape, planning and managing on a watershed basis makes a heck of a lot more sense than this weird jurisdictional approach that we have with our local governments. 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:49.200 In the state of Michigan, we have 1,800 local units of government that are making land use decisions that could potentially impact water. 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:54.320 Villages, townships, cities, counties, everybody, we're all doing our own thing. 00:14:54.560 --> 00:14:56.800 That doesn't make any sense for water, right? 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.920 Because I could be doing one thing here on the 00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:01.760 Campus of Michigan State University. 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:08.480 My friend Cliff Walls in the city of East Lansing, they could be making other decisions, the city of Lansing, and so on and so on. 00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:14.240 So, what we have to do is come together, all of the communities that are located in the watershed. 00:15:14.400 --> 00:15:18.960 And by the way, in the Red Cedar, I think we have 22 different local units of government. 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:20.480 We have to talk to each other. 00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:30.320 Hey, what are you doing in terms of land use controls, planning and zoning, and any kind of decision making you're doing about things that could impact the river? 00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:34.000 And make sure that we are in harmony with each other. 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.200 The decisions that we're making make sense for the water. 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.520 The water doesn't recognize boundaries. 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:41.520 Yeah, I was just thinking that same thing. 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.680 The lines that we draw on the map as people, the water just flows right over them. 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.640 You betcha. 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:51.840 So, when you think about the Red Cedar River now, what is the first thing that comes to your mind? 00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:55.360 Well, it's a wonderful resource for this campus. 00:15:55.680 --> 00:15:59.600 How fortunate are we to have the Red Cedar River flowing smack? 00:16:00.400 --> 00:16:01.120 Through campus. 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:13.600 And I think just the idea that we have this amazing resource and we have this tremendous responsibility to do whatever we can to help protect it, those are the things that I think of. 00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:24.640 But I think one of the things that I'm really excited about is I'm seeing kind of a renewal of excitement about using the river as a resource. 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:30.720 So canoeing and kayaking and fishing and bike trails and walking trails. 00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:39.840 And I always, we've talked about this for many years, my colleagues and I, that if you don't value something, why would you protect it? 00:16:40.160 --> 00:16:51.280 If we can instill in people a deep appreciation for the river, then they're so much more likely to want to get involved in some of our protection activities. 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:52.880 You know, that's kind of cool to see. 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.960 There's all this momentum that's building up with Friends of the Red Cedar. 00:16:57.040 --> 00:16:59.840 We're looking at launching kayaks and canoes. 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:04.480 And putting up signage so people know where they are, where can they put in, where can they take out. 00:17:04.800 --> 00:17:08.400 Here on campus, we've opened up fishing to the river. 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:09.840 It used to be restricted. 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.640 We didn't allow fishing at all for many, many years. 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.440 And then we only allowed fishing in a tiny little portion over by the Sparty statue. 00:17:17.760 --> 00:17:21.120 And now, for most of the campus stretch, we allow fishing. 00:17:21.360 --> 00:17:29.840 A couple of weeks ago, I like to walk on campus or run on campus along the river, and there was a student fishing underneath the Farm Lane Bridge, and he caught a pike. 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:35.920 And it was the coolest thing to see him so excited about his fish. 00:17:36.080 --> 00:17:38.480 And you could tell he wanted to talk to somebody about it. 00:17:38.560 --> 00:17:43.360 So I was happy to oblige and talk to him about fishing in the Red Cedar. 00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:46.560 So that's the kind of thing that we really want to see more of. 00:17:46.800 --> 00:17:52.560 I mean, we identified 32 different fish species on the campus portion of the Red Cedar. 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:53.600 People don't understand that. 00:17:53.840 --> 00:17:54.880 Whoa, they say, really? 00:17:55.360 --> 00:17:55.920 Seriously? 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.760 It's a thriving ecosystem. 00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.040 It is very much so. 00:17:59.200 --> 00:17:59.760 Just getting the word. 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:04.160 Out about that and saying to people, yeah, enjoy this resource. 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:06.160 This is our shared resource. 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.880 Yeah, it's something to care for and something to enjoy. 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:09.680 You bet. 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.200 You mentioned that you've been on campus for about 30 years. 00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:17.680 What do you think the Red Cedar River means to the MSU community? 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:23.920 It's such an integral part of our voice on campus, and you know, we sing about it. 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:40.800 I love to just, as I'm walking along the river, watch the students and all the faculty and staff and visitors too, but just sit along the river and study or just enjoy the sounds of nature, watch the squirrels and watch the geese. 00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:45.360 I really think it is such an important part of who we are as Spartans. 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:54.080 The interesting thing, though, is that the outreach and education can never stop because we always, always, always have a fresh batch of folks coming in. 00:18:54.320 --> 00:18:55.120 Always new students to students. 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:56.480 Always, always, always. 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.680 And so just getting the word out and helping people. 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:06.160 Understand the resource that we have and the role that they play in helping to protect it. 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:18.480 That's why I'm excited to see this renewed energy because it just helps to keep the momentum going in terms of just talking about the river and getting ideas for how we can protect it together. 00:19:18.800 --> 00:19:22.640 Yeah, well, I am happy to talk about the river with anyone who wants to talk about the river. 00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:24.320 That's so cool, I love that. 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:29.200 So, what's your favorite thing to do either on or near the Red Cedar? 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:34.240 Well, mostly now I just enjoy walking or running along the river. 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.000 I try to do that several times a week. 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.720 It just helps me keep a pulse on what's happening. 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.920 I can check to see if things are cool. 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:47.760 And, like I said, I really like to see people out and enjoying the river. 00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:52.000 Yeah, I love the river trail through campus and into Lansing. 00:19:52.080 --> 00:19:59.760 You know, I think it's such a great resource and such a great way for people to connect with the river, even if they don't have a boat or don't want to get wet. 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.440 You can still be there and interact and value the river. 00:20:03.760 --> 00:20:07.200 Do you have a favorite memory of the Red Cedar River? 00:20:07.520 --> 00:20:12.320 One of the things that I still laugh about when I think of it is one of my classes that I took out. 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:22.720 So I teach a couple of undergraduate classes, and I always try to get the students out to do some macroinvertebrate sampling, or we'll do some water quality sampling occasionally. 00:20:23.040 --> 00:20:35.040 And one year I had a group of students, and we were by the administration building, and we all had our waders on, and we had nets, and we were collecting the critters that live along the bottom and under the rocks in the river. 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.520 I saw a student, he kept bending over. 00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:39.600 I caught his movement out of the corner of my eye. 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:45.600 Well, he was finding crayfish, and he was grabbing them and sticking them in the front pocket of his waders. 00:20:45.840 --> 00:20:47.120 I said, What are you doing? 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:49.120 And he was from Louisiana. 00:20:49.280 --> 00:20:53.040 And he said, Well, I'm going to take these back and I'm going to have a crawfish boil. 00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:59.840 So I convinced him to put our poor crayfish back, but I always laugh when I think about that student. 00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:04.240 In the early years, that's how students interacted with the river. 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.800 They would fish and eat the fish right out of the river. 00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:07.680 Right. 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:13.120 I will say now we do allow fishing on campus, but it is catch and release only. 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:14.640 So I do want to be clear about that. 00:21:14.800 --> 00:21:15.840 We want to put them back. 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:17.280 Let them stay in the river. 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.440 What do you see as the future of the Red Cedar River? 00:21:21.760 --> 00:21:29.760 I am really optimistic about the future of the Red Cedar River, and I am because of people like you just seeing interest. 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:42.320 Oh, Mike Stout with Michigan Waterway Stewards and our Fisheries and Wildlife Club and their cleanup events and Matt Bailey and Landscape Services and all of the work that he and his crew have done along the river. 00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:48.720 In the early days when we first started our stormwater work, we had that kind of momentum and excitement. 00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:54.000 We had faculty members from five or six different departments, multiple colleges, and it was cool. 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:56.560 And we did a lot of really interesting stuff. 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.360 But over time, things kind of settled down. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.400 You just don't feel that sense of excitement. 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:05.920 I'm feeling that sense of excitement again, which is super, super cool. 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:12.560 And so I think if we can just keep this energy and excitement going, the future of the Red Cedar is great. 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:19.120 We're doing so much, and there's so much activity among our regulated communities here in the urbanized area. 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:24.480 And we're working with different partners on all different kinds of outreach activities. 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.440 I mentioned the MSU Extension Center for Lakes and Streams. 00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:32.080 There's a lot of really positive motion right now, which is super cool. 00:22:32.320 --> 00:22:34.240 So I think we're going to be doing great. 00:22:34.560 --> 00:22:36.800 The future of the Red Cedar is bright. 00:22:37.120 --> 00:22:37.680 I love it. 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.960 I think that's really interesting. 00:22:39.120 --> 00:22:43.040 You talked about how there was a lot of enthusiasm in the early 2000s. 00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:54.080 You know, in doing some of my historical research, you know, it seemed like there was a lot of activity and research that was going on in the 70s in conjunction with the Clean Water Act that you mentioned. 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.840 So it seems like maybe the interest on campus flows in a cycle. 00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:59.760 There's a way that we could ebb. 00:23:00.800 --> 00:23:04.000 Don't let the cycle get to the ebb and just keep the flow. 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:13.520 You know, because I've been doing community-based water resources stuff for so long, it really does take what we call spark plugs in the community. 00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:19.440 So, people who, for whatever reason, they're just interested in a topic. 00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:30.160 And so, if we can keep the spark plugs there, probably people don't understand my spark plug reference anymore, but it's like people who just are willing to put the energy into it. 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:37.680 And so, if we can find that enthusiasm and excitement in a few people, that's what keeps it going. 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.000 You know, that's what keeps that momentum there. 00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:51.280 Yeah, and I think it's really great that there are people who are serving in that capacity right now, and they're not just at MSU, they're across all the different nonprofits and different communities. 00:23:51.520 --> 00:23:59.840 And so, it helps to facilitate that collaboration and get the interest in the river spread across a wider geographic range. 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:00.800 For sure. 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:01.440 That's cool. 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:05.760 I guess my last question is, do you have any final thoughts that you want to share? 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:09.120 Anything that's on your mind about the Red City River that you haven't touched on yet? 00:24:09.360 --> 00:24:13.440 Well, you know, there's always a role for you, the listener. 00:24:13.760 --> 00:24:16.880 There's always something that you could do to participate. 00:24:17.120 --> 00:24:27.120 For example, I have a website called msu-water.msu.edu, and I have a lot of information on there about stormwater management. 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:33.760 And I work in cooperation with the Greater Lansing Regional Committee for Stormwater Management. 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:43.520 That's a mouthful, but it's the GLRC, and it is the 17 communities that come together in this area to meet our stormwater regulations. 00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:45.680 We always have stuff going on. 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:52.160 If you are interested in getting involved, just hop on that website, send me an email, and let me know. 00:24:52.320 --> 00:24:58.800 And I can put you in touch with the people that are working on stormwater and watershed work in this area. 00:24:59.040 --> 00:24:59.680 You can volunteer. 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:03.840 For a cleanup event, you can help plant a pollinator garden. 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:06.640 We just had a rain garden workshop a couple of months ago. 00:25:07.360 --> 00:25:08.080 Should have gone to that. 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:08.880 You betcha. 00:25:09.040 --> 00:25:09.840 So, and we'll have more. 00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:10.560 We'll do more. 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:20.960 We have a training symposium for local municipalities about salt and winter maintenance to protect the local rivers from chloride contamination. 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:23.760 So, there's always something happening. 00:25:24.080 --> 00:25:32.640 And if you have that little spark and you think you might be interested, reach out and we'll find a way for you to participate. 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:33.600 The more, the better. 00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:35.360 I mean, that's such a great way to close. 00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:38.720 So, Ruth, thank you so much for joining me today. 00:25:39.040 --> 00:25:43.920 Thank you for all the work that you do to support and protect the Red Cedar River. 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:45.120 Thanks for having me, Eric. 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:46.320 It was fun talking about it. 00:25:46.560 --> 00:25:47.920 It was a pleasure. 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.240 Next time on Red Cedar Stories, Eric will be speaking with Brandon List. 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:57.040 This podcast was recorded and edited in Michigan State University Library's G. 00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:58.800 Robert Vincent Voice Library. 00:25:59.120 --> 00:25:59.760 The views expressed. 00:26:00.320 --> 00:26:06.800 On this podcast, do not reflect the views of Michigan State University Libraries or Michigan State University.